Template talk:God sidebar

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ADD Tawhid to the template!!68.100.160.250 (talk) 23:17, 14 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Much needed template... hopefully this will also lead to some increased consistency between the God-related articles. In any case, great work! --Merzul 21:46, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WHT IS GOD –a true vision

There are some words for the almighty in Hindu philosophy and people think that all words denote to one supreme power. These five popular words are Brahm, Parmatma, Atma, Ishwar and Bhagwan used for almighty. The first three words Brahm, Parmatma, Atma are one and denotes to unexplainable, bodiless, shapeless almighty power but Ishwar and bhagwan used for that almighty power when Brahm come in to the matter(substance), with his full divinity. Divinity means what is the best or absolute that is in bhagwan ie God. Bhagwadgita advocated the divinity of God in its chapter ten and eleven. Here he is called Sagun-brahm. No one can worship Brahm, Parmatma or Atma because that is only achievable. People all over the world worship Ishwar or Bhagwan in different forms, what the name may be. The God with full divinity is worshiped as bodiless or with in body. The cosmos is the expension of brahm, each and every thing from dust to consciousness is the expension of brahm. Some scholars believe consciousness is parmatma but it is untrue vision. If consciousness is parmatma than what is matter(substance), because everything is brahm and this universe is the expension of brahma. Actually parmatma is an ultimate reality with absolute knowledge, wisdom and intelligence and repetedly described from vedant to Bhagwadgita as pure and undisturbed stage of Gyan and the force generate from him is the cause of consciousness and matter.(ref- article of Prof basant joshi) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshibp (talk • contribs) 05:10, 20 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Where would the following more general articles fit?

• Existence of God
• Conceptions of God
• Names of God

I think they are quite important and sub-articles of the God article. --Merzul 21:56, 28 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The template is getting big, which is a problem if it is to be appended to religion-specific articles, which commonly feature images, templates etc aplenty, and which can do without an additional template, especially such a big one.

One option would be to change it from Vertical to horizontal, so that it lies at the foot of the page. Thought? Sfacets 23:14, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

God exists in every way! Look around you! Do you think all this world and the complexity of us got here in a big bang? I don't think so. You need to repent of your sins and change from you evil ways! If you feel left out and alone don't worry! God is here! He will comfort you in every way and bring you peace in your heart! God sent his one and only Son to die on the cross for your sins. His name was Jesus. Jesus was perfect and blameless. He died for you! The very least thing you can do is live you life for Him! Stop doubting, and believe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.218.215.99 (talk) 20:57, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Much of this is redundant with other templates, such as {{Belief systems}}. It also has a large footprint, and leads to problems with placement of images on the page to avoid large blocks of whitespace. We should trim several of the links from this template, or make it a horizontal template for the bottom of the page. — BRIAN0918 • 2007-04-03 18:06Z

While I liked the template in the beginning, and it is nice on some pages like God, the whole navigation template stuff is starting to get worse than Google AdSense. I will look at the articles were this is used and see, if this can't be trimmed down to focus on the actual subarticles of the God article, and then split out the conceptions of god into a template of its own, perhaps? --Merzul 21:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

... don't you think? The Christian-centrism and presumptiveness is appalling, and most of the topics are non-essential (Alaha? God the Sustainer? Holy Spirit? Lord?) or irrelevant (Esotericism? Hermeticism? Philosophy? Chaos?). Many of the links are broken, and random inconsistent interjections of Chinese help cross the line from obscurity to opaqueness. Seriously, you take the time to include Monad and Baal, but don't even have a link to Deity or Goddess? Plus it's ugly. -Silence 03:15, 30 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't have thought that God needed a template but now that I think about it, it seems logical, I would also like to point out that there are a lot more things on the template than I thought there would be. Jeffrey.Kleykamp 20:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Can this template go on any article related to God, or only on articles which are listed on the template itself? Not a dog 03:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is the article A Course in Miracles an appropriate article for the template? To reiterate the above question, what is the purpose of the template and which articles should it be in? What function does it serve?—Who123 03:17, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Typically, articles include templates in which they are mentioned. hmwithtalk 15:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

So that would rule ACIM out. Thanks. Not a dog 20:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why ask the question above and then answer it yourself now??? I can not find the WP policy on this. Would you mind pointing it out? Thanks.—Who123 21:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Relax. I didn't answer it myself. hmwith answered it, and I applied that answer to the case (ACIM) that you brought up here. What's the problem? Not a dog 22:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am relaxed. I missed that one comment was by hmwith. I would still like to see the WP policy on this and similar templates. Have a great day!—Who123 13:24, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's less policy and more standard practice, I believe. hmwithtalk 16:17, 29 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The template is "God" - given we have documentary evidence that man has invented many "Gods" over the years is kind of a bias to only say "God" as if that was either one god or one conceptual archetype of what was god. I suggest that it is renamed to "Deities" Ttiotsw 17:12, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A template for polytheistic gods would be called Template:Gods. "God" suggests monotheism. hmwith 16:44, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Err ? Yes, that's the point - we have evidence that humanity has invented lots of gods over time thus the only verifiable word to represent this should be "Gods" (or rather Deities as it has a nicer ring). Ttiotsw 21:42, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then it should say "part of a series of gods" or "part of a series of deities", rather than "part of a series of God". hmwith 14:05, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Before changing it, I would like to know if anyone believes the title should be "God" instead of "Gods," and any arguments for a singular title. --Ned Pierce 12:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be no objective to changing it, Ned. Perhaps "Deities" is more appropriate because I sense that many people of faith would take objection to there being more than one God. Jasonid 05:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, there is a clear bias. The "God" title, which appears above polytheism and pantheism, among others, links to an article that begins: "God most commonly refers to the deity worshiped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions." I'm changing it to Deities. Mdiamante (talk) 15:59, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

And Elohim ? and God in Judaism ? etc. - Inyan

Been asking that same question for about 2000 years and still no answer ! See Mythology and Legend. Ttiotsw 20:15, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This template is so great that it must be fully protected!--Angel David 00:40, 23 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be possible to add New Thought (Unity, Religious Science,Divine Science) to the Template. How does one go about this I'm new to this. Also just for the record "New Age" is not New Thought. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.250.164 (talk) 04:56, August 25, 2007 (UTC)

It is about time this template had an Image. It is requested not to take it away.--Angel David 21:26, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would ask that it be removed, for a variety of reasons, mainly that there is no universal shared image of what God is or of how he ought to be represented. The earlier attempts to provide an image for God here were strangely Judeo-Christian-centric; that's odd considering that their God forbids them to create images of him, don't you think? :-) The image here seems to lean towards a "sky God" orientation, which contradicts the images of beliefs that think of God as an earth God/Goddess, or as a being without regard to any particular space, up or down, air, sea or land. I have to agree with the contributor who asked why we need an image of God, especially since he is supposed to transcend imagery and even forbids his devotees (in some systems) from creating an image of him. Craig zimmerman 17:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I love the Power of the image of light. I study New Thought (Unity, Religious Science).It is all about God within but I just love the image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.108.147.185 (talk) 20:36, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Not everyone agrees that God is a source of light. The title "light bearer" is actually associated with Lucifer, who was opposed to God. It is invalid to assume that all people who believe in the existence of God share the positive light-offering image of him. The point is still that there is no single universally valid representation of God that all people would concur with. In fact, it is the very fact that each group has a different image of him (even those groups that are told NOT to have images of him!), and that these groups argue endlessly about the differences between those images to the point of violence, which is the source of the most heinous evils in our world. (And the people who say "let's all try to have one image of him" cause even more of this kind of damage in the end.) I still say no image, please. Craig zimmerman 14:35, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I love the image I do not belive in the literal, let's lighten up (no pun intended). I believe all evil, is the absence of God (light). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.202.67.165 (talk) 18:23, 11 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added New Thought very specific belief system. I hope i changed in in the correct manner. Love the image--JGG59,25 August 2007

i want the following to be added instead of some clouds, hehe:

very funny, I thought the sky image was a great representation not of God Himself but it is instinctual of human beings to aim toward the sky for God, no one looks for God underground so I don't see why it doesn't fit as an image (again not of direct representation) anyway thats my opinion Habibko 03:04, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Should Monolatry be included in the list of 'general approaches'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.187.0.164 (talk) 15:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This template shows a serious bias towards the Christian view of God, being one single God (the title of the template) as well as the idea of heavens and holy light (the propagandized image), which have nothing to do with God. I think this needs to be changed to a more neutral title and image, reflecting a balance between the different topics covered by the template. Jasonid 05:46, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the template may be better off with no image. As for "single", like the God article, it is intended to be about monotheistic God, see the disambiguation notice there. Other notions can be addressed in other templates, such as {{Middle Eastern deities}}. Maybe this should be the template on "theism", not the template of "God", and God linked not as the template's title, but as a topic in theism. dab (𒁳) 10:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, many other generic templates such as {{Template:Discrimination sidebar}}, {{Template:Freedom}}, {{Template:Ethics}} have no picture, these one shouldn't have one since its topic has plenty of different descriptions.--Andersmusician VOTE 21:57, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the image, since it's inappropriate for at least half the entries listed.

It seems to me this template lacks focus. Ahura Mazda, OK. Holy Trinity, yes. Allah, Demiurge, God in Sikhism, Jah, Tetragrammaton, Supreme Being, Alpha and Omega, the Absolute. etc., etc. Good. But Amaterasu Omikami and Susanoo? (With Susanoo even placed out of alpha order in order to shoehorn him in some way that made sense.) Kami in general? (More like nature spirits than Gods.) Nüwa? Devas, but not Brahma? SUMMUM, a truly fringe notion?

These are not ideas in the same category. Specific gods of polytheistic religions are not conceptually similar to the transcendent divinities of monotheist, or even dualist religions. Most of the time in polytheistic religions, even the supreme god doesn't take on any of the characteristics of the transcendent deity even if (like Zeus) he might be occasionally called "God".

The idea of a transcendent, universal God, variously conceived and approached, needs to be treated as its own subject. Individual deities and culture heroes of polytheistic and pantheistic religions don't fit in, worthy as they might be of coverage. Perhaps there's some other class for which a template can be made that applies to them. But this isn't it, unless we're willing to extend it indefinitely. There needs to be some kind of bound set on what this template is about, and there doesn't seem to be one just now. TCC (talk) (contribs) 23:04, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I like the picture. Some time people have just got to loosen up and relax.66.108.111.91 04:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the template is unfocussed. The "specific conceptions" part is mostly just clutter. dab (𒁳) 15:33, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Since my old image was removed I added a new one, a better one, a fair one, a non-disputable one. Isn't it great? Or is it?--Angel David 13:37, 30 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

well, I suppose "God" just doesn't lend himself well to images (aniconism and stuff). Your image is great for "religion" but somehow doesn't quite do the job here... Let me say that I liked the clouds though. --dab (𒁳) 15:32, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Can someone provide an Image to this template. It's in bad need of an image.--Angel David 01:41, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An image probably won't be possible because it would be inherently POV as to whose god Wikipedia is supporting. Best to leave it without an image. T Rex | talk 03:56, 4 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the current "creation of Adam" image isn't terrible, but I really see no reason at all why this template should be "in bad need of an image" (why? images need to fulfill some function, wikipedia isn't flickr.com) dab (𒁳) 12:54, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's also not a question of supporting one god or another; it's applicability to the subject. None of the images so far relate to the infobox as characterized by the links it contains. If the clouds were, as I said, inappropriate for "at least half" of them, then the Sistine Chapel pertains to even fewer than that. TCC (talk) (contribs) 00:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I notice that the 'God' side box isn't at the immanence page, nor is Immanence included in the box. Since Immanence is the counterpart of 'Transcendence' (yes?) making those two additions seems reasonable, but I don't know how to do either. Any help anyone?

Hope so!

john —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.226.238.136 (talk) 05:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You know, since God's invisible--Angel David (talk) 20:14, 5 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It was emoved again. Stop removing an image when I put it in. Nothing is inappropriate a bout these pictures. This template is in bad need of an image!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now someone put up an image of a universal picture please!--Angel David (talk) 14:36, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Stop removing an image when I put it in" - As soon as you stop adding pointless and/or inappropriate images.

"This template is in bad need of an image!!!!!!!!!!!!!" - Why is it so important for there to be an image? Ilkali (talk) 14:39, 6 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One image probably wouldn't fit every single conception of God there is out there, so we're probably better off without one. Midorihana^{~いいですね？} 06:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• It needs to look pretty so it needs oh I don't know....an image!--Angel David (talk) 22:54, 11 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  • several other templates use no images, such as {{Discrimination sidebar}} {{politics}} {{Sociology}} and many more which don't refer to non-narrow topics (present both in western and eastern cultures).BTW wikipedia is neutral --190.43.9.158 (talk) 01:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm replacing "God gene" with neurotheology, which encompasses the former premise as well as other scientific theories, and is a fuller article. Mdiamante (talk) 15:14, 19 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mdiamante, if you want to do a {{Theism}} template on theism in general, do go ahead, but it won't do to change the scope of this template so drastically without discussion or justificatino. dab (𒁳) 19:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion's right above here. This template includes subjects such as polytheism and pantheism, which are not subsets of the concept of God. Here's the first sentence of the "God" article:

God most commonly refers to the deity worshiped by followers of monotheistic and monolatrist religions, whom they believe to be the creator and overseer of the universe.

Not much place for polytheistism-based gods such as Athena or Osiris there.

And here's the first sentence of "Deities":

A deity is a postulated preternatural or supernatural being, who is always of significant power, worshipped, thought holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, or respected by human beings.

"God" fits in here, and so do polytheism-based deities. Ergo, "Deities" is, IMO, a much fairer title for the template. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 19:28, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

no way. You want to do a template on "Deities", do it. But this is the template on "God". Note we already have {{Paganism}} and {{Theism}}, so I think your new template may be somewhat redundant. dab (𒁳) 19:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Deities" is not synonymous with "paganism"; a monotheistic deity such as Jehovah is part of a discussion on deities in general. That's why "monotheism" is one of the many items in this template. And if "Deities" and "Theism" is redundant, than surely "God" and "Theism" is also. You have not offered any specific reasons as to why "Deities" is not a more appropriate title, and no one else has objected, so I'm reverting it. Please make some specific arguments for a "Template:God" before reverting. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 20:49, 12 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm conflicted on this. On one hand, I think it might be worth having a template on God. On the other, I think most/many of the places where this template is used are actually about deities in general and not God specifically (eg: Agnosticism, Monism, Polytheism, Deity, Personal god). My vote is for keeping this template focused on God, and removing links to and from inappropriate articles. Ilkali (talk) 06:04, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comment. I'm not sure I follow your reasoning, though. If "most/many of the places where this template is used are actually about deities in general and not God specifically", wouldn't it make sense to keep this a "Deities" template, and leave the "God" one for other, specifically monotheistic articles? Best, Mdiamante (talk) 14:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. This template has a history of edits and discussions made in a specific context, which you're proposing to divorce them from. You're talking about changing a template from X to Y and then making a new X, and it makes much more sense to just create a Y from scratch. Ilkali (talk) 19:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that's a fair point. Should the template look like this, then?

Part of a series on
God
Specific conceptions Names · "God" · Existence · Gender Creator · Architect · Demiurge · Sustainer Lord · Father · Monad · Oneness Supreme Being · The All · Personal Unitarianism · Ditheism · Trinity Omniscience · Omnipotence Omnipresence · Omnibenevolence in Bahá'í · in Buddhism · in Christianity in Hinduism · in Islam · in Judaism in Sikhism This box: view talk edit

This would solve the problem of pantheism and other traditions being put under the "God" title without making redundancies with Template:Theism. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 22:30, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say that a lot of the things in 'Experience and practices' and 'Related topics' are suitably relevant too. Ilkali (talk) 05:52, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You suggest something like this, then

Part of a series on
God
Specific conceptions Names · "God" · Existence · Gender Creator · Architect · Demiurge · Sustainer Lord · Father · Monad · Oneness Supreme Being · The All · Personal Unitarianism · Ditheism · Trinity Omniscience · Omnipotence Omnipresence · Omnibenevolence in Bahá'í · in Buddhism · in Christianity in Hinduism · in Islam · in Judaism in Sikhism Experience and practices Faith · Prayer · Belief · Revelation Fideism · Gnosis · Metaphysics Mysticism · Hermeticism · Esotericism Related topics Philosophy · Religion · Ontology God complex · Neurotheology Problem of evil (Euthyphro dilemma • Theodicy) This box: view talk edit

With the template removed from such pages as polytheism and agnosticism? That would seem a good fit to me. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 15:47, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, something along those lines. We could discuss the possible need for a Deities template thereafter. Ilkali (talk) 18:21, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed all approaches not directly associated with monotheism, as well as the template from those pages, but wasn't able to move the template back to Template:God. Maybe the changes are too recent? Mdiamante (talk) 22:46, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Nice shootin, Tex, but you took out a lot of terms that are nowhere discussed in this discussion- a little overkill, don't ya think?

We should have a discussion on each term and decide that way which one should stay and which ones should go, and say why.

Here are the terms you took out, lets talk about this.

Defined relative to gods, not God specifically. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I could agree with this not being there as it can be about anything. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See agnosticism. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is almost always in reference to "God" but could be about anything. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep— Preceding unsigned comment added by someone (talk • contribs)

I agree to keep as well. Atheism is much more clearly defined than agnosticism, it's undecided versus "I definitely do not believe in god." -Mike Payne (T • C) 18:00, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's not really the dichotomy here. The issue isn't about how well defined either is, but how reasonably we could describe either as an approach to thinking about God. Since atheism isn't specific to God, I would generally favor not including it. If we include atheism, there's no reason not to include agnosticism. Ilkali (talk) 18:18, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the leader of atheism: "Atheism, as an explicit position, either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism." How is that not a clear cut way of looking at the existence of god? Realistically, I don't understand why agnosticism isn't included either... There's no explanation here unless I'm missing it... -Mike Payne (T • C) 18:19, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Like I said, neither is specific to God. Neither even attribute any properties to God, except in their more narrow senses. Ilkali (talk) 18:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Ilkali. This is a template about specifically monotheistic approaches to/conceptions of God, not religious thought in general. Atheism is thus too general to suit this template's purposes. Mdiamante (talk) 18:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. Under the "General approaches" to the concept of "God" then Atheism is very much an approach to the hypothetical concept of "God". Whilst I wouldn't add "Secular Humanism", both "Atheism" and "Agnosticism" are very valid "General approaches". Ttiotsw (talk) 18:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note to self - I've reconsidered "Agnosticism" as it's too general. Somebody can say they are agnostic on 'x' e.g. "Operating System agnostic", whereas Atheist is only ever used in conjunction with "God". Remembering that many years ago "Atheist" was also a charge used against people who actually believed in a God but just not the God of the people who were in charge. Ttiotsw (talk) 19:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Atheist is only ever used in conjunction with 'God'": Er, no. Read the intro paragraphs of atheism; "God" does not appear. Atheism is lack of belief in any gods, and is therefore, for the same reason you gave for agnosticism, too broad for this specifically monotheistic template. Mdiamante (talk) 04:57, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A good point so I have changed the Atheism article to correctly match the reference provided which is from Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy which says "Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.". Note the use of singular "God". Thanks for highlighting that. On that basis can you please self revert back to my edit ? Ttiotsw (talk) 08:49, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but you are turning the discussion upside down. Atheist belief in no god (intentional lower case); neither from a polytheistic (e.g. Zeus, Hera, Artemis) nor from a monotheistic system (God, Allah, Jahweh). Saying that atheist only do not believe in God (ie the Christian monotheistic God) makes no sense whatsoever. Arnoutf (talk) 09:27, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But it does make sense if you look at the historical use of the word "Atheism". It was used against people who did not believe in a specific god even though they believed in another god. The Routledge reference and many other references refer to "God" i.e. capital 'G' as well as "god" (lowercase 'g'). That Atheism also happens to be applicable to all gods too doesn't make it less relevant for this template as the majority of references refer to "God" or "god". Therefore we have both contemporary and historical uses that make this a valid "General approach" to the concept of a monotheism god (irrespective of case). Ttiotsw (talk) 10:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The general modern religions are monotheistic. From that point of view the singular God is fine. However atheism should not be reported from a religious point of view only but also from its own point of view. (Atheists sometimes argue that atheism is nothing different from monotheism except from eliminating one more god.) Majority view and history are fairly irrelevant (if we used that argument we would still consider the world a disc). Arnoutf (talk) 18:25, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You were making sense until the last sentence when you inserted a red herring. Wikipedia does report the majority view, and the historical view. We back up our text with references to reliable sources. That aside, the answer is to change the wording "General approaches" to not be "General" but to ONLY include the theistic point of view. Then I have no problems.

In the end what is "Atheism" but a position regarding "God" but it certainly isn't a Theistic view. It also is a position regarding any god in general but we have many references that say "God" and they mean God with a capital G.

The Template fails to be specific in targeting only "God" but the Wiki software automatically capitalises the first letter 'g'. If the capitalisation of the word is important then we must mention this. Also "Template:Deities" redirects to this template. That needs to be dropped if we're only talking about monotheistic approaches.

Atheism is not a approach to Christianity and so it would not be added to the Christianity template but it is an approach to "God". See the problem ? This is the conundrum I have in that the general approach of "Atheism" as a concept pre-dates the major religions, Christianity and Islam, by many centuries and certainly pre-dates the Deism of the modern era.

I suggest the following; Change "General approaches" to "Theistic views" (or similar), delete the redirect on "Template:Deities" and comment about the technical issue of "Template:god" verses "Template:God". Ttiotsw (talk) 20:22, 30 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No objections to deleting the "deities" redirect. "Theistic approaches" strikes me as a good title. And since monotheistic religions tend to capitalize "God", I don't see any problem with that as the template title. Best, Mdiamante (talk) 00:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about the addition of atheism under the "related topics" section? -Mike Payne (T • C) 23:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia's article is specific to God, but I'm not sure that's not just the result of bias in its authors. I've often heard it defined more broadly, encompassing all deities. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This could be about anything too. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete

Not specific to God, but relevant. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This could be about any God. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:27, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete

Not specific to God, but relevant. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know enough about it. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep

See agnosticism. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Same as athiesm. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete

Debatable. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is like a middle ground between deism and panentheism which are both in the template, so if they are then it should probably stay. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep

Debatable. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are different kinds but some definitely relate to God as God, it should stay. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:30, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep

Not related to God. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If the name of the template is going to continue to be "deities" then I don't see why this does not beloing, this is just a question of how many deities are there. This should stay or maybe the name of the template should change. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:31, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We're talking about what would be included in a 'God' template. Ilkali (talk) 06:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

How is Polytheism "not related to God" but Deism, Monotheism, Panentheism and Henotheism are?!! If Polytheism is "not related", then neither are the others, which are currently figuring prominently at the head of the template! Weirdos...65.183.135.231 (talk) 16:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Establish its relevance. Ilkali (talk) 16:19, 1 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Polytheism is relevant to the topic of God because it is the belief that the Gods are multiple in number - an important aspect of one's belief toward Deities. Considering the vast amount of cultures throughout history that have practised Polytheistic religions, I think it is both illogical and disrespectful not to include Polytheism among other views on the nature and existence of God(s), such as Monotheism, Pantheism, Deism, Atheism etc. If you are going to include the view that there is one God in the template, (or that there are no Gods at all) then the view that there are many Gods is surely related. I would like to see Polytheism re-added to the template Dw33rp (talk) 14:04, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

delete

Not specific to God, but relevant. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Theism is all about there being a God, I think this should stay. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:32, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Theism is about there being at least one god. It makes no reference to the specific set of entities called God. Ilkali (talk) 06:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

keep

Not specific to God, but relevant. Ilkali (talk) 05:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Don't know enough about the topic to really say whether it really belongs in this template, transcendence can apply to a lot of things. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:33, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

delete

Natural theology also. As I understand it, we agree on the inappropriateness of a "God", if not necessarily "Deities" template, on the following:

• Agnosticism
• Atheism
• Ignosticism
• Polytheism
• Nontheism

The following pages, IMO, could work with a "Deities" template, but I feel that a specifically monotheistic "God" template should be for specifically monotheistic subjects, and not subjects such as "Transcendence (religion)", which discuss non-monotheistic subjects such as Hinduism and Buddhism on equal terms.

• Misotheism
• Monism
• Natural Theology
• Nontheism
• Pandeism
• Pantheism
• Polytheism
• Theism
• Transcendence

Here are two (new) test templates for the rest:

Part of a series on
Worldviews
General approaches Agnosticism · Atheism Ignosticism · Monotheism Nontheism  · Pandeism Pantheism · Polytheism Theism · Transcendence Theology (natural • political • mystical) This box: view talk edit

Part of a series on
Religious belief
General approaches Misotheism · Monism Monotheism  · Pandeism · Pantheism Polytheism · Theism · Transcendence Theology (natural • political • mystical) This box: view talk edit

Thoughts? Best, Mdiamante (talk) 13:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aren't pantheism, pandeism, and theism basically monotheistic concepts? They all have the assumption of there being one God. Torquemama007 (talk) 20:34, 15 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're wrong about theism. Pantheism and pandeism are monotheistic, but whether their central deity is God depends on how we interpret 'God'. Ilkali (talk) 06:43, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pantheist is confusion with atheist. Important anyway. Pandeist is more liek Buddhist but with "God", any one single God creates. So keep.

Does this need to exist for any reason, or did someone just forget to G6 it? Cheers, The Hybrid T/C 23:58, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's just a redirect. I think someone forgot to G6 it. Care to do the honors? Postmodern Beatnik (talk) 14:26, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Y Done --Cheers, The Hybrid T/C 01:59, 9 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. It might be wise to change the subtitle 'theistic approaches' to 'General Conceptions'. The reason is that theism is actually a doctrine in its own right and came to be contrasted with deism as deism became influential in the eighteenth century. Deism stresses that God is not intervening in the world whereas Theism says God is. It is therefore a bit confusing to say that deism is a theistic approach when actually it is opposed to theism. The same can be said of pantheism which asserts that God is not transcendent. This also opposes the theistic view. Langdell (talk) 22:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to propose that comment by German philosopher Feuerbach be added. his conception of the Anthropological nature of "God" was very influential in later secular understanding of how the idea of God arises in society. Considered one of a group of philosophers termed the Young Hegelians Feuerbach was influential on the thought of other philosophers such as Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels who were to have a major impact on the course of the European and world history.

The following captures his conception fairly well,

“…but the object of religion is a distinguished object - the most excellent, the first, the highest being. It essentially presupposes a critical judgment - the discrimination between divine and non-divine, between that which is worthy of adoration and that which is not.

It is in this context, therefore, that the following statement is unconditionally true: The object of man is nothing else than than his objective being itself. As man thinks, as is his understanding of things, so is his God; so much worth as a man has, so much and no more has his God. The consciousness of God is the self-consciousness of man; the knowledge of God is the self-knowledge of man. Man's notion of himself is his notion of God, just as his notion of God is his notion of himself - the two are identical. What is God to man, that is man's own spirit, soul and heart - that is his God. God is the manifestation of man's inner nature, his expressed self; religion is the solemn unveiling of man's hidden treasures, the avowal of his innermost thoughts, the open confession of the secrets of his love." - Ludwig Feuerbach, 1841, The Essence of Christianity, Chapter 2 - Essence of Religion in General, page 1.

Any opinions on this?198.54.202.218 (talk) 12:57, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Simon, South Africa.[reply]

god's real name is Alex Walton —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waltonlovesgaz (talk • contribs) 11:36, 6 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Why is God in Zoroastrianism not on the template? If anybody wants to add it, this is the link Warrior4321^{Contact Me} 23:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} The alpha and the omega

72.214.126.218 (talk) 19:35, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. --JokerXtreme (talk) 20:30, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} I want to Add the new Portal http://Knowingallah.com , which is dedicated To know the God - This site is made by Many languages

MidadeWiki (talk) 07:23, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done This navigation template is for internal links to other Wikipedia articles only, not for external links to outside websites. --Cybercobra (talk) 07:25, 21 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

{{editsemiprotected}} I would like to request that "Polytheism" is re-added to the "General conceptions" section of the "God" template. Polytheism is important to the topic of God because it is a belief that deals with the number of Gods worshipped under a religious system. It is one of the defining features of many non-Abrahamic religions which have existed throughout history, such as Greek, Roman, Norse, Egyptian and Aztec mythology, as well as several modern Neo-pagan religions. Considering the number of Polytheistic religions throughout history, it seems disrespectful and illogical not to include Polytheism under "General conceptions", especially when "Monotheism" is listed, but "Polytheism" is not! Surely if Monotheism is relevant than Polytheism is also? After all, they are both beliefs than concern themselves with the number of Gods worshipped. 123.3.95.188 (talk) 12:10, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Set Sail For The Seven Seas 217° 23' 0" NET 14:29, 27 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

lie god you are reality...

Since I am not a registered user I can't do this myself but I wanted to ask someone if they would add the link 'Theism' to the God template in the list under General Conceptions. Theism should be first on the list! Thanks 81.107.150.246 (talk) 06:50, 21 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Suggest code for this template (before noinclude section at end) is replaced with that for the template opposite, as (1) it uses the simpler "Sidebar with dividers" and (2) is thinner, for the sake of smaller screens.

I've also included Theism in the "General conceptions" section as requested above, although in alphabetical position as per the rest of the links.

213.246.81.40 (talk) 02:42, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Done Alpha Quadrant ^talk 22:43, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Part of a series on
God
General conceptions
Agnosticism · Apatheism · Atheism Deism · Henotheism · Monolatrism Monotheism · Panentheism Pantheism · Theism · Transtheism
Specific conceptions
Creator · Demiurge · Devil · Father Great Architect · Monad · Mother Supreme Being · Sustainer · The All The Lord · Trinity · Ditheism · Monism Personal · Unitarianism In particular religions Abrahamic (Bahá'í · Christianity Islam · Judaism) · Ayyavazhi Buddhism · Hinduism · Jainism Sikhism · Zoroastrianism
Attributes
Eternalness · Existence · Gender Names ("God") · Omnibenevolence Omnipotence · Omnipresence Omniscience
Experiences and practices
Belief · Esotericism · Faith Fideism · Gnosis · Hermeticism Metaphysics · Mysticism Prayer · Revelation
Related topics
Euthyphro dilemma · God complex Neurotheology · Ontology Philosophy · Problem of evil Religion · Religious texts Portrayals of God in popular media
v t e

I propose to add the Triple deity among the Specific conceptions

Mormegil 87.19.76.143 (talk) 03:24, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The two terms mean exactly the same thing. I have removed the less common monolatrism to avoid such confusion. Pass a Method talk 17:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think someone should just create a nice graphic of the word "God". It occurred to me that the Allah template does this and if the same were done for "God" I doubt anybody would object as long as it's a nice, neutral image. NaturaNaturans (talk) 07:16, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A question has been raised at Talk:Panpsychism#Panpsychism_is_a_part_of_the_series_on_God? about the appropriateness of that article for inclusion in this series. --Pfhorrest (talk) 02:34, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I can elaborate a bit on the concerns raised by another editor on the Panpsychism talk page. Panpsychism is a view discussed in philosophy of mind and to a lesser extent cognitive science, not a topic in theology. While some of panpsychism's historical adherents were indeed theists and no doubt connected panpsychism to their theistic views, few contemporary proponents are. Leading proponents who have endorsed panpsychism as the or a possible solution to the mind-body problem, such as David Chalmers, Thomas Nagel, and Galen Strawson, are atheists and (in the latter two cases) materialists. One of the main inspirations for contemporary panpsychism is the ideas of Bertrand Russell, perhaps the most important atheist of the early 20th century.

The standard form of panpsychism is micropsychism, the view that consciousness is found at the smallest level of physics and in some cases (i.e., brains) combines to form larger consciousnesses. There is a variant, cosmopsychism, that suggests a single universal consciousness breaks down into smaller ones, but this is unusual among panpsychists, and in any case note that the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy explains important differences between cosmopsychism and pantheism. It's also worth noting that micropsychism in its modern forms is not a form of animism, because while it attributes consciousness to the lowest level of reality, it doesn't attribute it to intermediate levels (e.g., rocks, tables, etc.). (The problem for panpsychism of determining exactly which aggregates are conscious is called the combination problem.) Furthermore the template does not even include animism.

For these reasons I'd like to remove panpsychism from the template. I believe the current situation may lead to confusion among readers not familiar with panpsychism, especially at the panpsychism article where the template is prominently visible. I will wait a while for other editors' thoughts, though. Gazelle55 (talk) 21:00, 3 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I saw this template on polytheism and it struck me as odd. Surely if this template encompasses polytheism, it should be called "gods". Otherwise perhaps polytheism and other general concepts shouldn't be included in the template? Generally the title of the template only includes subtopics, not supertopics, especially for a nav style one such as this. Mvolz (talk) 09:59, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@SophieHadifz: You've reverted my edits twice,[1][2][3] but your reasoning ("this template is about monotheism") doesn't really hold, since it also covers non-Abrahamic religions in general, and polytheism in particular. As and aside, I can see four discussions on this TP on whether the template should cover this or that, with no clear consensus either way (#Template bias towards monotheism - rename ?, #Several things wrong with this template, #"Deities", #Remove general concepts?). François Robere (talk) 15:51, 22 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I would keep it singular... as actually being more inclusive. In the singular, it can be added to articles about monotheistic deities (and related concepts) as well as pantheistic deities (and concepts). In the plural it would only apply to pantheistic groups of deities. Blueboar (talk) 13:52, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'd consider it the reverse, actually. The template text says "part of a series on God", which implies that articles the template is placed on are being associated with something singular. Furthermore, "God" (capitalized, singular) in many contexts is assumed to refer specifically to the Abrahamic God. On the other hand, a monotheistic god is still a god, so a template titled "Gods" would still apply - just like we would call Mount Everest "part of a series on mountains", even though "Mount Everest" is singular and "mountains" is plural. Sunrise (talk) 21:29, 25 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. "God" is specific enough, that I'm not even sure it applies to some non-Abrahamic monotheistic religions (ideally we would use "Deities", which is more general, but for the sake of simplicity "Gods" will do). François Robere (talk) 09:33, 26 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your reasoning, but the problem is that the use of "Gods" will seem to preclude monotheistic religions, as their God isn't just one more god in a possible list of them, but rather the only one such religions believe exists. In other words, a monotheist reading "This is about gods" will think: "Well, this is not about my religion; it is about polytheism" — the reasoning being that the monotheistic God isn't one of many, but rather the only one. But I do understand the reverse problem. Could we perhaps replace "God" with "Theism" in that title? It seems to solve the problem, as theism is the belief in any God or gods. LongLivePortugal (talk) 22:26, 27 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting solution. We should probably make a list of options, but before we do I just want to stress that from an encyclopedic POV the Abrahamic god is exactly "one more god in a possible list", even if it might raise some difficulties in infobox/navigation design. So - options:

1. Monothesitic God
2. Theism
3. Gods
4. Focus on mono' here, split everything else to a Gods template (w/w/o renaming this)

François Robere (talk) 11:38, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would disagree slightly, in that, even from an encyclopaedic viewpoint, it still doesn't make much sense to treat the Abrahamic God as just one more (belonging to the same list as Zeus, Frigg or Mercury) in any articles pertaining to the Abrahamic God. That kind of description would only make sense for gods whose concept exists within a polytheistic framework.

Having said that, I also like your option 4: splitting the monotheistic and polytheistic frameworks into two different templates also fixes the problem. Thus I would support either option 2 or option 4. LongLivePortugal (talk) 13:42, 28 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I prefer splitting too, but for the meanwhile I chose the easier solution.[4] François Robere (talk) 17:21, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mormonism is an Abrahamic religion with more than one god, see God in Mormonism, Heavenly Mother (Mormonism) - and of course their Trinity seems to be 3 separate persons. Doug Weller talk 10:15, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to sit well with these changes. François Robere (talk) 15:37, 3 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

• I would argue that 'gods' is fine and doesn't preclude monotheistic religions, since the template covers multiple faiths. Humanity, collectively, believes in multiple gods; it doesn't preclude monotheistics religions to imply eg. "this is a template on the many gods humanity has believed in over the ages" of which their monotheistic god is only one. Any monotheistic religion believes that their god is the only real one, but they don't dispute that other deities are believed in and worshiped. --Aquillion (talk) 04:47, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that the title "Gods" would make it seem that the template focuses on polytheism, which is clearly not the case. In fact, if you read the template, you will see that it addresses many of the characteristics traditionally assigned only to the monotheistic/Abrahamic God (notably in the sections about specific conceptions and attributes). Having considered all of this, we seem to have already reached a consensus that "Theism" is the most inclusive option, that is, the one that most adequately summarises everything that this template encompasses. LongLivePortugal (talk) 17:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This edit request to Template:God has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Add Aseity and Transcendence to Attributes, since these are common to many forms of theism. 2601:547:501:8F90:1856:6CC9:A2D:B4A6 (talk) 00:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:54, 30 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]